Prune Harris: Understanding Your Energy

Prune Harris has been able to see, study, and shift energy fields since she was born—a gift she didn’t fully realize she didn’t share with everyone else. Prune is an incredible teacher—I’ve been lucky enough to work with her—because can take esoteric and complex energy systems and distill them into metaphors, concepts, and practices that are both easy to understand and easy to do. She has taught me so many simple holds and gestures that have had a direct impact on helping me calm myself down and feel more contained and grounded. She’s the author of a great guidebook, Your Radiant Soul: Understand Your Energy to Transform Your World, and she has an incredibly comprehensive Youtube channel where she teaches simple practices. She’s wonderful. In today’s conversation we cover a lot of ground—from basic holds and energy systems to why most of us need to also ground up. We also discuss the auric membrane and what happens when it gets punctured, by other people, the energy of the world, and psychedelics.

MORE FROM PRUNE HARRIS:

Your Radiant Soul: Understand Your Energy to Transform Your World

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TRANSCRIPT:

(Edited slightly for clarity.)

ELISE LOEHNEN: It's great to see you even though we're not in the flesh and I have to say I get very excited by you and your work because and this is from the things that you've taught me digitally and then in your book, obviously, and then also working with you in person because there is a stability to you and a groundedness that I find very reassuring and also that you teach these such small practical interventions that don't have to be executed perfectly, because I get really caught up and I'm not doing this exactly right, therefore I'm not going to do it. But for me, like the heart hold that you taught me where I brace, it is incredibly helpful to drop me into my parasympathetic system and and so I just want to even start that, there, that the moves that you teach, and there are many and people can find you on YouTube, don't have to be done perfectly. Why do you think that we are so convinced that there's only one way to bring ourselves into alignment or to do these exercises? in the world of energy.

PRUNE HARRIS: I love that, Elise. I mean, quite literally, you've written the book on why we think that way. So the fact you're asking me, I love it. But it's for every single reason that you put in your amazing book that we're programmed by so many forces to think that, well, we're not worthy enough and we're not good enough and we can't possibly know it ourselves. Everything about your energy system would suggest otherwise, it suggests that you know energy because you're energetic beings. We live in a world that is made of energy, all that we see and all that we can't see. So we have been, We could say conditioned or taught through ignorance, through design, however we want to see it. We have been taught away from our natural way of being, which is to be yes, rational and logical and also intuitive. We're able to track our own energy. We're able to track the energy of people that we love, complete strangers that we meet, and we do it All the time. So reconnecting us with that natural world of energy means that we get to be curious. We get to explore it. We get to play in our own energy fields. We get to think, Oh, if I do a certain practice, let's say the one that you were just talking about. If I cross my hands over and I kind of tuck into these arm creases here and well, how does that feel? We take a few breaths. Hey, that feels pretty good. I feel like I'm settling in some way. Okay, now let's try it a different way. Pop your hands underneath your armpits and cross your hands over your chest. Okay. Well, that feels even better to me. So we begin to realize that even a simple practice like crossing your arms over your chest and putting your hand somewhere is activating different parts of our energy structure, our energy anatomy. And depending on what we need that day for our own balance, for our own flow, for our own nurturance of our energy system, then we get to figure that out. After having taught and worked with energy for most of my life now, there's a interesting play of people feeling like, Oh, I don't know anything. I need prune to tell me, or I need another expert to tell me exactly what to do. And into that coming of empowerment, where actually we feel like. Okay, I can identify how I'm feeling. I have enough basic understanding of my energy to understand what might help bring me back in. So I might be able to use language like, Oh, I'm feeling really vulnerable now. Maybe my aura isn't very strong. So you do a little practice to support your aura or I'm feeling really emotional about something. Maybe my heart field needs a bit more support. So you choose a practice. So there's a logic behind all of it, but then you get to understand what is it that can support you in this instant right now. So it's about bridging all of that amazing curiosity and knowledge, so that you can really support yourself in the moment.

ELISE: Yeah, and there's like a play to it. It was interesting to do it in a group and we can talk a bit about sort of the resonance of groups as well, but I don't know how many of us there were 20, 30 people. And so everyone was doing their playing and feeling into their own bodies and we were working on each other. And yeah, As you mentioned, some people just like came alive at certain exercises. We all needed very different interventions, but it was very loose, you know, like there are very few rules, which I really appreciated about what you taught us. And everything was very simple. And for me, we'll definitely talk about auras, but Prune taught us this basic figure eight, which you can trace with your fingers, your hands. I'm doing it now as a way of reweaving our auras and patching holes and little vortexes in our auras. And that has been a huge thing for me because I love to do it around my head. It feels so good. It feels like someone's playing with my hair and I could just do it for hours. And then I get to my throat and neck area and I just, I want to vomit which was so subtle and yet has been such an incredible unlock for me. Can you talk about that practice and why it's just good hygiene?

PRUNE: Yeah, well, first, I'm really glad that you're kind of exploring that and playing with that and recognizing that that pattern, which we can call the Lemniscate or the infinity symbol, you know, there's a reason that it's been in our human consciousness for so long that we see it in petroglyphs, that it is an understood symbol. And it's because it's one of the symbols of energetic connection throughout all of our energy field and the interconnection that we have with other energy fields. So I've been able to see energy since I was born. And when I look at people, there are many systems that leap out, but one of them is going to be the health, the vitality, the size, the shape, the complexity, the density of these amazing Lemniscate patterns. And it's the way that you're, incredible whole body system communicates energetically. Those figure eights or Lemniscates, they carry energetic information because really we have to understand that energy is simply information. Energy is information. So, The information that gets shared through those Lemniscate patterns are the information that activates a real template of health that you have in your system, I have in my system, everybody has in their system.

And it carries that information right deep into your bones, into your cells and into every part of your energy system. So, simply by bringing your consciousness, a lot of it, when you work with those fingers at least, then you're activating the electromagnetic energy of your fingers to really weave thicker, deeper, more connective patterns of those lemniscates or to actually by weaving them in your system, release and relieve any congestion or lack of flow that's in that system area. So you're there, you've got your fingers, you're moving these beautiful patterns around your body system. Every part of you has those eights. And when you activate them, it's a little bit like stroking part of your skin. We know with all of our scientific understandings of the skin that if I stroke my hand, my entire organ of the skin responds. It's one organ. Well, you can think about these billions of Lemniscate patterns in your system as being one system. And when you start to activate them anywhere, And you are amazing and wonderful thinker. You have a huge brain field. Yeah. It's very, very active. And that means that that area, correct me if I'm wrong, but sometimes it can begin to loop in thoughts as well, that actually it gets too much. You have the modern epidemic of overthinking at times. And actually that can create energy patterns that lead to congestion can lead to headaches can lead to that feeling of pressure. And so when you bring your medicine of your hands up and your consciousness, you think about that area. You think about those figure eights, your energy fields, our fields of consciousness. So as you do that, then in every way, Those patterns start moving into their biggest, most connective, most relaxing energy system. So that's the simple way. And yet, when we get to your throat, as you were talking about, then you felt that real congestion there. That was where the patterns weren't holding their biggest balance. And, Sometimes, if that's the case, I'm thinking of anyone who's listening or watching. If you're weaving these lovely figure eights on yourself and you suddenly feel like Elise, like, Oh, this is uncomfortable. I don't like this. Then do those eights much, much further away. So extend your arm out through your system and do them there in relation to the area of your body. That's feeling that congestion, just means that it's needing a bit more movement.

ELISE: Well, it's been interesting since I saw you and we emailed a bit about it. And I'm gonna, people who listen probably know, like, maybe know about my chronic hyperventilation patterns and I've been in a pattern and this one feels very different and and more pressured and part of it I think is maybe the awareness of like, this is all happening in my throat and mouth area and I am As discussed with you, I'm going down my tongue tie release and I'm doing all the myo because I think that there's some structural pain there. And then also, what's become present to me energetically is that I am and I bet people who are listening can relate to this, is that I'm creating this huge conflict in this part of this throat chakra. I have a huge conflict that needs resolution where I'm trying so hard to shove energy down and get breath down and everything in my body is like, no, no, no, we want, like, we want to come up, like there's somehow some pressurized, conflict right here at my throat that needs to be resolved. That's where I'm at with it, Prune. We'll see.

PRUNE: Yeah, it's such a tender area of the throat and It feels like so much of what you're offering into the world, what you're bringing forward is about the expression of authenticity. And that expression of authenticity is something that has been silenced for so long. And so, I guess where my heart goes to is really thanking you because you're playing out in your own body system, in your own soul system, the very healing, and you're bringing that healing forward in yourself, but in a way for all of us, because for the more of us that are able to bring forward that desire for authentic, compassionate speech, the desire to bring the integration, the throat so much about integrating, integrating all of our aspects, integrating any extremes of polarity that we might be experiencing, finding the place beyond that duality, like holding the paradoxes and finding the sweetness in the center of them. That's all of the energy of the throat. So it really feels like you're doing big world work just in doing personal work as well.

ELISE: Thank you, Prune. And I think it's ancient. There's a lot in my throat and neck, and maybe I'm overly attached to this story, but I feel like I've definitely lost my head or been burned or silenced in Lifetimes past and it does, it feels at times to say the truth and our culture and to say it in an increasingly public way is very dangerous, particularly for women. I don't know if it's a question of modeling it, you know, fell off a horse and broke my neck a couple of years ago. And I'm convinced that that was somehow some past life trial that I was completing at a different level. So I don't know whether it's how these patterns shift. You would know maybe, is it that you live through it and you push past it and you resolve it or I don't know?

PRUNE: Yeah. Well, let me tell you what I think...

ELISE: yeah, tell us, Prune.

PRUNE: So often it's about being able to bring the healing to that pattern so it can dissolve within us, which is very different than thinking about moving through it. It's kind of that concept rather than battling a habit or battling an old pattern, which is where we need to be with it for a long time, until it becomes such a bang, bang, bang, bang. Like this is the pattern. This is the pattern that we pay enough attention to it to say. You know what? I am fed up with this pattern. What do I choose to do about it? And how do I choose to go about it? But when we feel like we're battling it, like we have to get rid of it, then that brings its own levels of resistance. And if we can think actually about how can I, one of the language things I would use is how can I love this so hard, so strong, so beautifully that it dissolves within me, that I can embrace it in its fullness. And when we come from that place, which is a different level of energetic vibration in our system. When we're battling something, we're very much in that survival instinct, aren't we? I have to overcome this. I will overcome this. I will sort this out. And we were in a vibration that is beautiful and essential and about survival. When we are able to transmute that more into that vibration of, I wonder what this pattern's about. I love this pattern for whatever it's trying to share with me. I love it. I really look forward to it being gone, but I love it. And I'm open to its teachings from that place. We're coming from that vibration, which is much more closer to the sacred. We're moving with different levels of consciousness. And if we can take our attention there, and I would say much easier when we can support it with physical practices that support our energy, then when we think about what a habit is, what a pattern, what this ancestral patterns that you're talking about, when you say that you can understand that either in past lives or in your ancestral lines that have been beheadings, there's been burnings, you know, we're talking about. in many ways that looking for an ancestral or soul healing as you're here in this life. And when we're able to understand that, when we're able to say, okay, well, this is what's playing out in my system. How do I bring the healing to it? How do I bring the balance to it energetically? Then we've gained whatever it was that we needed to understand about that. And we're simply able to. move through that, move with it, you know, when you talk about falling off the horse, there's something that always flashes through your system and it's the power of initiation. Like that neck breaking was a huge initiation for you. That's a big word that can mean so many things, but essentially it's like a door opening and it feels like that door opening in your system, that experience that you went through, that's a blimmin big experience. That experience that you went to is part of the healing of this big, big collective and personal place in your system.

ELISE: Yeah, and it's interesting because I didn't realize that my neck was broken for a week because I didn't go and get it checked out. I lost consciousness, but , I wasn't really having any symptoms and I had pain, which was to be expected. And when I did finally go back to Los Angeles and I went and got a scan and realized my neck was broken, a nurse in the hospital said to me, someone was holding you when you fell. And I said, Oh, I know. And I think that that, to me, was like the greatest lesson of like, no, you're not going to die. In fact, , you're not even going to be in literally incapacitated. Like we've got you like there was some like, it's okay. This is how extreme this can get. And We've got you. It's not going to happen. Which I think was big. And as you said, with this particular breathing pattern, not that I haven't really tried to resolve it in the past because I have, but it's reaching a pressure for me of like, okay, we're done. This is done. Yes. Thank you. And now, now I resolve this because this isn't helping me. And whatever one is trying to come up in me, which is very different. And I want to talk about the two poles of energy, whatever this is, that is coming in a different direction for me which is coming up rather than down needs to be Respected or just like, homed or allowed? I think I've been working at a level of containment, Prune. I can't sustain. I can't sustain it anymore.

PRUNE: yeah, absolutely. Well, I celebrate that. I don't think anybody wants you to contain it anymore. And, in that kind of big expression, then what's really so powerful energetically and personally is that when you go through that claiming of that power that's coming up or that wisdom or that whatever, then you give everyone permission that that's good for everyone else as well. So it really is. None of us have personal healing. Every part of our personal healing is tied into that collective healing. You know, one thing that's really lighting in your system right now is, and it showed up when you said about being burnt. So suddenly that what we could call the witch wound, yeah, that collective legacy of millions of women and some men losing their life because they were the medicine holders. They were the wisdom keepers. And in you that suddenly showed a lot in your amazing energy field. Full of those rich indigos and purples and cobalts and it suddenly showed, but what flashed so strong was your womb energy.

ELISE: Mmm.

PRUNE: So that's interesting then when you talk about this big rising, like maybe the healing of the witch wound is the releasing of power from the witch womb. Yeah.

ELISE: Ooh, Prune, I love it. Yeah. I'm in the middle of a process, I think that I don't quite understand yet, but some sort of a different type of reconnection to my feminine and then recognizing in myself, like, how much contempt I've carried for the feminine which I think is also a big cultural wound that's very subtle because obviously I love women and I love being a woman, but I also have contempt. So I think that's also coming up as something that needs to be healed. And it's strange, like I have nail polish and lipstick. And again, we get into these contempt cycles where that's such a loaded conversation in our culture. But that's where I feel drawn in part to be like, why do we draw these lines for ourselves? As much as we're trying to pull the feminine forward, so many of us are trying to pull it forward in a masculine way, I put myself in that camp. It's still sort of deprecating the feminine as somehow regressive or superficial, and so I'm trying to bridge it, I think. Now, I'm kind of seeing what I'm up to.

PRUNE: Yeah. I really love that. You're kind of playing in that space, aren't you, to say, Oh, what if this for me just like the concepts of femininity and masculinity are masks, aren't they the kind of cloaks that we are invited to adopt. And then sometimes we find that we're zipped into those cloaks so strongly that we have no choice about dismantling them. What about if it's this cloak, this day, this aspect of femininity, this day, this masculine, this place of not identifying as either the next day, just finding the movement so that is very much part of that journey of returning to authenticity, isn't it? Because what does it mean? And what does it mean to be you? What does it mean to be seen as female you, what does it mean to see you at your soul level? And who cares what gender that is? So it is the place of kind of exploring so that everything can become more mobile.

ELISE: Mm. Yes. 100%. One of the things that I thought was so fascinating about our time spent, and again, I mean we could do eight to ten podcasts minimum and not even sort of scratch the surface of the energy systems that you articulate and know about, but you sort of open the group by asking us to sort of reach our hands above our heads and feel our orbs, which to me feels so good. Again, I get that sort of like head tingling sensation, sometimes I do it and I'm sure people are like, what is she doing? But I'm playing with my orb friends. And then we have one in the ground, right? Can you explain those two poles and why so many of us forget about the top one and think that we only need to ground and what happens?

PRUNE: Yeah, absolutely. And maybe let's just back up one second. Don't let me forget that question, but to really just house people in the understanding that everything we are is energy, every part. So our body is energy. It's just lovely, dense matter, while all of the spaces between and within that dense matter of our body is housing more energy. So we've got the energy we can see, which is our hands, our skin. And we've got the energy that we can't see, or that some people can't see, and that would be those flows of energy, the pulses of energy, the fields of energy, which creates us. So if we think about anything, then that thought is an energy form. If we feel something, that feeling is an energy form. When we speak, this is energy coming out of my mouth and your mouth right now. So if we just land ourselves in that understanding and they're not random fields of energy, these are very complex, very beautifully structured fields of energy. The way that I perceive the body system, I've divided them into six energy systems: the chakras, which you mentioned about your throat; the aura, this biofield that's from within us and all around us; the energetic core, which is what you're mentioning with that daiji pole, this amazing core energy that runs from above our head to below our feet; the elemental rhythms, these thick, amazing pulses that determine so much about how we move through our day and how we perceive the world; the energy channels, the direct flows and rivers of energy within us and all of the jobs that they do; and then the Heartfield, this incredibly magnificent humming singing field of energy, which keeps us connected. So with all of those deepest is that energetic core that you're talking about there, Elise, and that core energy for me is where our soul energy is. And from that place, you can imagine, I know it's not glorious or glamorous, but let's think about a hose pipe that's running from above our head, right down, just in front of the spine, all the way down to beneath our feet. Then that Taiji pole or the Sushumna Nadi, if you understand that tradition, that core then radiates energy out through all of we are. And at the very top of that pole is the sun star, that golden orb that you're mentioning there. And at the very bottom is the earth star. And for those of you who know about the chakras, there are a continuation of that system, there's many different names. Some people talk about it as being the eighth chakra. And we're really well versed now. There's been a lot of research that helps us understand the benefits of grounding or earthing. Yeah. That's been an established concept now for decades I feel like often we forget the fact that we are an energetic flow. And if we've got all of this juicy goodness coming in from the electrons all over the earth, coming into our electromagnetic field at the bottom, that's great. And we're also connecting and discharging some of our own energy into the earth. So there's that place of. Energetic exchange and communication, then what happens to the rest of it? Energetically we're designed that there is a continual and simultaneous movement below the feet, from that earth star, all the way up through the core and through the whole body system, the aura as well, to above our head and up and through that sun star. From above the sun star all the way down through the body system, through the energy system and down into the earth. So when we think of grounding, we have to think about grounding up as well as grounding down. And when people begin to really understand that as a concept in their energy system, and it's a really fundamental and important one, then it's like, whoo, that space through the throat expands and opens that space in our back heart area expands and opens because we're suddenly aware of the yin energy from beneath us moving up towards the yang energy above us and the yang energy moving down towards the yin energy of the earth. So when we're talking about these concepts of masculinity and femininity, when we're talking about how we bring balance into those fundamental principles of yin and yang, then we need to really hold that understanding that in us personally, right now in each of our own individual energy systems, that balance is always looking to be actualized within us. Now, how that manifests as far as someone who has a much more yang external dynamic energy, or someone who has a much more yin energy internal, those deep, deep thinking energies, then that's up to so much about our kind of constitutional energy, but the balance is there. As you say, we could talk forever on that, but in a nutshell.

ELISE: I thought it was interesting because we never really talk about, again, that grounding up and you were sort of sharing some case studies of people you had seen and you were trying to figure out what was happening with them only to realize that they were like sleeping on a grounding mat and that they were like discharging way too much energy into the earth. So I think that that's interesting because I think sometimes we think we're helping with all of these external products and we're maybe like really throwing ourselves out of whack. Whereas I'm sure for some people those are really helpful.

PRUNE: Yeah. And that's where, what do we say? A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. Because actually, if we've taken someone else's understanding that, Oh, we should always work with external grounding sources. I'm not talking about practices that you do. Maybe someone goes for a walk every day and they know that's what deeply grounds them because it connects them down and up. Or a meditation practice or a breathing practice or the practice of hanging out with friends that you love and laughing, you know, they're all amazing grounding practices. But when we rely on other things to help us ground such as earthing mats or sheets, then that may or may not be beneficial for your body system. It depends on where your feeling that you're not grounded is sitting inside the energy system. Yeah, so definitely about understanding the basics of your energy and understanding what you need to do to bring them into balance.

ELISE: Okay. So let's talk about auras and as you call it biofield, because I think that's like a little bit juicier and more easy for people to understand. Because we did a lot of work on aura repair and understanding where Vorta, you wrote about how so many women have heart holes and that the aura is held by this auric membrane that you could, you're very Tilda Swinton and Dr. Strange, but you were like snapping our auric membranes. But will you talk a little bit about the aura, the auric membrane, and maybe we can even talk about psychedelics, because I thought that was fascinating.

PRUNE: Yeah. Brilliant. One of my favorite topics. So we need a lot of resilience to get through most days. Especially, I mean, here I am, you say I'm a very grounded person, here I am in my little valley in Cornwall with five houses within a two mile radius. All of them have little pieces of land and I'm here on my seven acres with animals and with trees and with a stream. Like my system needs to work a lot less to be resilient in its electromagnetic flow than someone who's living with stresses, big tensions, big to do lists, big activities around them. I mean, I still feel awed anytime I go into a city. I'm like all of these millions of people choose to live together. You know, there's so much activity and I can thrive in that for a short while. But if I was living in a city often, always, then I would have to really revamp my aura because it wouldn't be supported in the way that in my rural life, it's currently being supported. And I have lived in cities and I can do that no problem, but the intensity of other energy that needs absorbing, is very strong in a lot of people's lives. So when we think about this, what is the aura? Many people have an idea of the aura as something that is around you and a lovely bubble or sphere of energy. Maybe you've seen pictures of like an egg shape, but what's really important to understand about the aura is that it comes from inside you and it's only as strong as your vitality. So you can think about the aura as essentially being a vibrational field that is being vibrated out of your cells. So now how are your cells? Are you eating in ways that really activate your body system or not? Are you living in ways that support your vitality or not? So some people are able to really enjoy a big, healthy, vibrant, resilient aura, because as we talked about in the workshop, they might have much more of a woody energy, this amazing kind of physical powerhouse energy, and that will give them a nice, strong, energetic vitality and produce this nice, strong aura with a bouncy auric membrane and, fabulous. And some people will have a very, very different sort of aura. It will be very gentle, especially if they're not very grounded. Now we know through our schooling systems that the daydreamers struggle. Yeah. Think of those amazing girls and boys that you knew in your school, who kind of drifted through life instead of being the ones that met all the deadlines and followed everything exactly as they should and were the best at sport. Well, those people, those beautiful, watery, fluid people, and that aura is also very, Very fluid, it's not in its force. It's not in its dynamism. That's never how it was designed. They were designed to be able to take space and time to absorb, to dream, to vision a different future for us. They're the amazing poets, the bards, the creators of our future visions. So, auras have a quality depending on our soul quality, depending on our soul need. And that capacity when you live in a city to be able to nurture your aura so that it can be the big protective connector that it's designed to be. We started talking about those gorgeous lemniscapes, well they move through every single part of your aura and your body system and they help you translate the world around you. They help you in your Energy field, those fields of consciousness think that's an energy that I'm keeping out of my system and that's an energy that I'm welcoming into my system. So as far as resilience, as far as that place of feeling, yeah, I can be me in this world because my protective connection is really charged. That's the difference between a healthy aura that's being supported in our daily life and an aura that's really much more compromised. So for all of the people that, you know, and that are listening or watching who feel like they exist in a level of vulnerability, Yeah. Or that they feel everything that someone else is feeling that they are impacted so strong that their energy system is highly sensitive or that they identify as an empath in that respect, then that's an auric issue. That means that we need to get that aura so much more resilient for that individual. Cause otherwise it's exhausting. When our aura is not in its strength, we feel vulnerable. We can feel nauseous. We can feel like we have to retreat just to exist within our world. So we lose that capacity to feel safe, to feel connected.

ELISE: Hmm. Beautiful. And so just doing those figure eights around can help reweave your aura. You had a sort of rubbing our hands together and then pushing our hands out to extend different colors to the auric membrane. And your book is obviously full of practices and so is your YouTube, to keep redirecting people there and your Instagram to see what we're talking about. But let's talk about when the auric membrane is punctured and you talked a bit about, it was a wild card question at the end about psychedelics, but it was fascinating and then opened up a whole nother conversation about, again, picking up energies or other people's energies or who knows what else. So psychedelics talk to us about what happens.

PRUNE: Well, I'm going to, we're going to go back to that concept of a thing or grounding sheet or mat to say that different systems respond differently. So I want to kind of lay that down as the baseline proviso when we're talking about any substances really. But when it gets to psychedelics, by their very nature, energetically, they expand us. They move us up out of groundedness and they stretch and expand our energy fields. And they also bring it's a very interesting little spin. It's like every part of your energy field begins to have these torsion waves in it, which leads to a big breaking down of habits and patterns, which is why psychedelics can really kind of open up a level of expansiveness. But those spinning little, yeah, the only way I can say it is like a little torsion field that happens within your energy systems, they lead to separation, which again, can create expansion. Yeah. So it's all...

ELISE: double edged.

PRUNE: Yeah. The effect of the drug is doing exactly what it needs to do in your energy system in order to really open, expand, allow those places of different consciousness to move through all really fine. What I've seen, and not often with people who've had one experience, but when people are having repeated psychedelic experiences, then that Space that kind of enforced separating within our energy fields begins to create holes in the cohesiveness of our natural non using energy field. Now, we've known since the Greeks, the saying that nature abhors a vacuum. When there's a hole in an energy field, something's going to fill it. No exception to that ever, ever, ever. Something is going to fill it. So then the question is what? What fills a repeated and out of balance hole in your energy system, wherever it is? And it will be wherever you had the biggest patterns. So let's say for example, that someone has a lot of issues around connecting with relationships and it's really held in the heart field, now they're taking some psychedelics and wow, that heart field is writhing, it's rolling. It's tripping. It's spacious. It's awesome. And they think this is great. And so do it again and again and again, even in small doses. And suddenly that heart field is not able to reconnect in the same way. Now there's gaps. And now those very patterns and pains that seemingly were transformed or transmuted while under the effect of the psychedelics become far more present in daily life. So then what do we do? We reach for more psychedelics because that was what helped us. And suddenly we're in this repeating pattern of increased imbalance. Well, I guess I've just about described every addiction or dependency there is energetically. But one of the things, because there's this let's say a gap, a hole increasing, and there can be many, many in an energy system when there's repeated use of psychedelics, then there can be energy that comes into us that isn't beneficial. And I'm not talking about biggies like entities or possessions because that's outside the scope of this podcast. But there can certainly be dense energy. We can be open and vulnerable to places where negativity can really settle other people's negativities, other people's grief. I mean, when we think about the collective energy field right now, there's so much fear. And so much grief, and there's courage and there's hope, but those vibrations of hope and courage, they don't move into out of balance vacuums. It's those negative vibrations, we really can feel the fear that's around in our communities and societies. We really can feel the grief, the anger, and that's the vibration that we begin to house. And it's even more confusing because we house it without being able to understand it. At least if you've had experiences in your life that you know, and you can understand that, yeah, this is the pattern or this is the pain because of such and such, there's a different level of conscious processing. But when actually we're housing energies that aren't our own, then it gets much more complex to try and bring healing to that.

ELISE: Mm. And, so the people aren't freaking out and the occasional use, or like there's ways to sort of repair and reclaim, clean your aura but if your aura is more or less juicy and intact and you are still going to be potential, you're still going to be processing the collective energy field, but you have a greater capacity.

PRUNE: Yeah, definitely.

ELISE: not so stuck.

PRUNE: Yeah. And also, I mean, one of my big questions when we think about psychedelics is why are you drawn to that in the first place? And when it's out of like questing. Let's use a grand word. Yeah. When it's questing in some way, when we're exploring the beauty of our soul mission here in the world, then the psychedelics can open, can enliven and activate. We probably would need, if there's a need to do that a couple of times in our life, so if we are reaching for them more frequently than knowing why asking the question, why? I think that's really powerful because when we got the very start of this conversation, we're talking about that authenticity, yeah, what does the experience of the psychedelic give you that is absent in your daily life and how can you create it in your daily life?

ELISE: Yeah. I people think that I do a lot of psychedelics because I did psychedelics on TV, but I've actually done very few and the one that was most profound for me isn't actually a psychedelic, but it was MDMA in part because it got me embodied, which was a new experience for me and really helped me be present. But I have no interest. In the mind expanding. I feel like one of the great purposes of psychedelics has been to blast people's minds open. So they're like, Oh, my God, we're not there's so much again, energy. There's this whole other world that is present with us. And it feels like it's a spiritual experience for those people in a way that can be very profound. I don't need that because I feel like Yeah, I live it. And I am trying to do the opposite, right? And spend less time out there and more time in my body. And so I'm not actually called to do them, but I think they're very powerful. I think they need to be done in the right setting, obviously, and integrated properly and not used extensively. But I think some people don't need it because they're already very aware Right? Of everything that you're talking about, they're like, yes, of course, I feel this all the time.

PRUNE: yeah, absolutely. And that place of kind of witnessing the wonder of the world. I think that's what psychedelics are really beautiful to help people witness the wonder. And so to understand to, like you say, think, Oh wow. And then come back into regular daily life and find. The oh, wow, that's where I think they can have such a beautifully transformative effect. And interesting when you were just talking about your first experience, it was your assemblage point that moved so much. So that understanding of coming back in your body. So for you, like that was a profound movement that your whole system witnessed on a whole different level. And then you could move forward in your world in a different way. Beautiful. Nothing is good or bad energetically.

ELISE: Yeah.

PRUNE: Yeah. Is it in resonance? Does it aid our healing? Does it aid the healing story of the world? Those are kind of the questions, aren't they, that we can use as a framework for any of our experiences and our choices.

ELISE: Yeah. I did it three times because I did the whole maps protocol. But the first experience was the really profound experience. And I certainly could have stopped there. But for me that was, you talked about the assemblage point, which maybe you can describe that for people. But it's the first time that I've had really somatic awareness, even though I'd interviewed tons of people and pretended like I knew what they were talking about, but it was the first time that I was able to sort of be back in conversation with my body and to recognize, Oh, I haven't been here. Yes, I can feel my legs and move my body, but like I haven't been here. in my body. Will you quickly tell people about the assemblage point?

PRUNE: I will, what a beautiful thing to finish on. So the assembler's point is an amazing part of your soul energy that is very intact. Usually when we're experiencing our soul energy, then it's the radiant soul energy that's coming from deep in our core and flowing through every single part of our system. So we can't distinguish it as anything else. But the assemblage point comes from that core soul out, connects into the heart, the physical organ of the heart, and then it comes out of the body system. It's attached with amazing filaments of energy from the very top of the sternum and it comes out and it resides within the aura. Maybe kind of, if you were to extend your arm right out in front of you, it's going to be somewhere between your wrist and elbow, midway between there. Now draw that line and bring it in front of your heart system. So I don't know, you're kind of, what would you say, at least a couple of foot you know...

ELISE: two feet maybe.

PRUNE: yeah, away from the center of your chest. Now that is the place where your assemblage point shines your soul energy forward in the world, almost leading you, well not almost, literally leading you along your soul path. And it's a most fascinating place of perception. That soul energy is always moving to perceive, to understand, to inquire about, the world soul, the energy of the world that you're working and walking within. So it's incredibly wise, incredibly powerful and tender part of your energetic structure and literally leads you through your life. So sometimes when we get really stuck in a rut, maybe we've had Repeated experiences, which have shown us we're not good enough, or I should try better or all of those old stories. When we live them for long enough, it can get that that assemblage point starts losing some of its mobility, some of its curiosity about the world. And we get more and more limited in our own story. And part of the work to really transform your world through understanding your energy is to bring the fluidity back into that assemblage point. So the way you were talking then, Elise, it looked like that first experience just reminded your whole body system and your soul, like, Oh, I am, I'm an actually embodied form here. And this body's got rhythm and communication and needs and abilities and let's reconnect with it. So it kind of kick started the movement of that assemblage point back towards more fluidity.

ELISE: Beautiful. Well, you have to come back, Prune. We need to do more.

That was Prune Harris, she has a YouTube channel, she shares a lot on Instagram, she has a beautiful book which outlines so many of the exercises and so many of the systems that we talked about today. And again, what I love about it is that it’s very loose and there’s no perfectionism required in terms of the techniques that she shares and most likely you will find a couple that are deeply felt by your system. There are a few things that she’s taught me: the heart hold that I mentioned, the one where you do an infinity symbol on the skin above your eyes, where you go up on the bridge of your nose and around and down using multiple fingers, to realign and refocus, and also just taking the palms of your hands and resting them on your cheek bones and covering your eyes and forehead as you breath, is deeply relaxing for me. There are so many, and everyone will leave with there little toolkit, and if you like this episode, please share it and please rate and review the show as well. Alright, I’ll see you next time.