Jakki Leonardini: Contending with Fear
Jakki Leonardini is a highly clairvoyant energy healer. I originally met Jakki through my friend Kasey Crown, a trauma therapist—the duo host WellSoul Workshops several times a year and while I’ve never been to one, friends tell me they are actually life-changing, because the combination of Kasey and Jakki’s wisdom and expertise addresses each person, on every level. When you work with Jakki, she explains that we all have intuitive gifts, and that they’re a skill and not a gift. And yes, we may live in very material bodies, with very complex minds, but we’re all animated by energy—energy that’s highly influenced by the world. Understanding this is the first step toward keeping ourselves well.
Over the years, I’ve worked with Jakki a lot on the idea of “fear” and how this animating and very human idea gets its power—she has a lot to say about this, as you’ll hear in today’s conversation. Energy healing is very nebulous and confusing, but hopefully Jakki’s framework will give a context to make it all more palpable, and easy to access in our lives. She’s even designed an app called My Soul Vibe, which uses the quality of your voice to track your energy—it’s pretty fascinating. Okay, let’s get to our conversation.
TRANSCRIPT:
(Edited slightly for clarity.)
ELISE: First of all, whenever I see you, I'm always struck by your glow and beauty. And I know at first, I thought I was older than you, you jerk. How did you get into this? I actually don't know.
JAKKI: Oh, well, so it was very interesting, a dear friend of our family, he was diagnosed with glioblastoma when he was age 11 and so his family and his dad who's a cardiologist, they decided that, you know, we're not gonna do the western medicine. We're gonna do energy medicine. We're gonna do alternative medicine because we think that's our best shot. And so when Will was 16, so he had been going and he had been going to a retreat and working with an energy medicine practitioner and that was what they believed was, you know, keeping him healthy, that and, you know, being vegan and kind of a holistic approach. And he invited me one time to go with him and he goes, will you come with me and sit in a current, and I'm like, and I'm the kind of personality, I'm like, what? That sounds cool. I didn't even know what he meant by current. Like I didn't like process it through like he meant like these waves of energy that were being held this on by this crystal in this certain place by all these people. Right. I had no idea. And I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go with you. So I went with him and I had this visceral experience and I wasn't a big meditator at the time, or you know, I've always been spiritual, but not really, not really into the mindfulness practice at all, and I sat there and six hours was the meditation.
And while I was there, I had all these visions and I had all these sensations and I could, I just felt like, like I walked out of there going, whoa, there's something really to this. This is something more, this is how you tap into source. And it was really incredible. And when I walked out, a gentleman walked up to me and said, I'm a medium here, and during the meditation I got a message for you. And I said, oh, that's interesting. And you know, ha ha ha, kind of happy-go-lucky way that I'm just like, sure, okay. And he is like, you're meant to be a healer. Do you know that? And I'm like, me? And he is like, yes, you have a very strong gift. And I said, listen, I drink Sauvignon Blanc and read People Magazine by the pool. I really, really don't think I am any type of magical healer, you know, at all. And my sister-in-law was there at the time. She's like, yeah, no. And then my best friend was there and she's like, yes you are. You've got to pursue this. And I'm like, this is, this is just, you know, come on. Well, when I left there, it kind of stuck and I started to study and I studied with Denise Lynn and then I went on to go to Energy Medicine School through the Berkeley Psychic Institute with one of their, it was a private session. And so I did that for a couple of years and then a friend said, will you come to my house and, and get the ghosts out? And I'm like, okay, sure. Again, I'm always like, yeah, okay, I've, I haven't done this for anybody else but myself, but why not? And so off I flew to Las Vegas and. You know, cleared their house and we, you know, at that time I used a lot of alchemy. So I used salt and sage and essential oils and, you know, I had my feather and my bell and I was like, you know, here I am and that was nine years ago. And then that was it. From that day, the next thing I knew I was, you know, booked and at everybody's friend's house and I started to do this professionally, and so I kind of fell into it a little bit.
ELISE: How is the kid with glioblastoma?
JAKKI: He is 24 years old and he's becoming a Jesuit Priest and he is, you know, the tumor is still there. However, it hasn't grown. And, you know, he continues to live a very clean and healthy lifestyle and prayer and energy. You know, when we talk about energy, everything is energy. We're electromagnetic beans. And when you attune to those force fields of love, you know, which I call divine energy fields, that is where our wellbeing is found. And so, you know, he really focuses his attention on being attuned to his wellness and to the energy of the earth and the divine that supports him.
ELISE: Beautiful story. Yeah, that's not the first story I've heard like that; there’s a woman named Annie Daniel who has a beautiful product line. She's British. She's a total witch, like the most loving, beautiful, she chants into her oils and she's been living with a, I don't know if she had glioblastoma, but she lives with the brain tumor. She has sailed around the world. I mean it's amazing and stunning. She doesn't really talk about it. It's not a secret, but she's an incredible, I think, healer. She also puts people on a table, if you ever have a chance to see her she's in the UK. She's in the UK, but she comes here sometimes. But just like a beautiful person, you know I feel that way about you as well. There are certain, and I just wanna say that too, because I feel like, and we've talked about this, I've made videos about some of our conversations, when you work with energy, and we're gonna get into all of that, including how we do it for ourselves, be careful. I feel like we are so quick to outsource. To other people, healers, et cetera. And you really wanna make sure, one, never outsource your knowing. Never outsource your sovereignty and be really careful about who you let into your field and who you give access to. And let's, I wanna talk about that too. I’ll put that in the parking lot of agreements because this is a big part of your work. Unconscious agreements. Yeah.
JAKKI: Agreements, but I mean, what you, what you just said cannot be said enough, and just to kind of elaborate on that a little bit, you know, we are embodied in order to gain seniority over our energy field. We're here from my experience and estimation of like working with people and watching energy evolve. we're here to hold seniority and to hold it in the light. So any type of practice or any type of healing that we're doing, if it's taking you further away from what you know to be true for yourself, then that's not the direction that we're meant to go in. We want to be in a relationship, and it's important. We are relational beings. We are meant to be one within the oneness, so we're meant to help each other heal. So when two people work together on a certain, you know, intention, it's magnified, you know, beyond our belief. And so it's wonderful to always get support. I get support. I work with a healer every week, sometimes twice a week because of my business.
But that healer and I are working together and that healer and I are helping me see with my own clarity. And I have seniority. No one is an expert in your life, you are the expert. And if you just kind of think of it that way, then you'll keep yourself safe. Right? And I always say to people, when you're working with somebody, someone will say, well, I have an intuitive head, or you know, yeah, I really know this for you. I always say, well, where is that coming from? right? And don't just go, oh, okay. Oh, tell me your intuition. I don't know which frequency of energy that person's tapping into. And so it's so important to say, set an intention. You know, I would like to have information that is for my highest and best good, and the highest and best good of all concerns.
And that information may only come from love or divine light, however you wanna put it. But the frequency is a pure, unconditional wavelength of love. And you know, the universe has a lot of different frequencies of energy. And so I always say, and I was taught early on, and it was one of the greatest gifts that someone's ever shared with me, is go straight to source. Straight to source. We don't need an intermediary. We need to build our own relationship with those divine frequencies of energy that exist all around us. And they are in different forms of entities and whatever entity that you believe is an entity of love that you feel connected to, but it's gotta be the source, meaning love, and whenever that's present, then you're safe. It is light that keeps us safe. So when you say, or when I say, you know, you really wanna pay attention to who you’re working with, that's not meant to put fear. That's meant to say, tune in to where the light is and be very directional and very attentive to that type of energy, and it will show up for you and that in itself will keep you safe.
JAKKI: Does that make sense?
ELISE: Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna talk about light and darkness, cause you also said something really profound to me, you said, we were talking about my anxiety about being seen, which is something that I know I share with a lot of people, a lot of women, and there are reasons, you know, I write about this a lot in the chapter on pride and my book, but there are a lot of reasons for us to be fearful of being seen. And you said to me we actually have this reversed in our minds that when you are in the light, when you are a spotlight on what you're doing, you're actually a beacon for other women to join you. It's when we're scared into the shadow, when there is no light on us that we’re more at risk and we've sort of been sold the opposite bill of goods. That was a big shift for me, that visibility can be safe.
JAKKI: Very safe. Because when you, because think of everything as an electromagnetism. Right? And when you are, well, you know, it's coming to me to say right now too, is we've been taught that we have to be humble. Right. And that you can't get too big for your britches. Right? I hear that and I know, I think that would, that's probably coming from my grandfather saying, you used to say you don't wanna get too big for your britches. And I'd be like, oh, what's that mean? And then you're like, you know, and then when you get big, Michael Bates, who is one of my mentors, said to me, Jackki, when you walk into a room, you don't realize when you walk in with all this light around you and all this love, you’re getting the attention of a lot of different, you know, energies and it's like the shadow frequency goes, ooh, there's dinner. How can we get in? How can we, you know, throw this little dig? Or how can we get in and plug in and then drain that light because frequencies of energy that are in shadow cannot create their own light.
That energy cannot create light. It is shadow, and so it has to to defeat, to sustain, to have energy, it must plug in and then take, and so that plane, that relational plane, if it's in a shadow frequency, is gonna be very diminishing and very draining. But if we are connected to source and connected to the earth and we're running our energ this way, and our relationship is this way. That's what we mean. Stand up straight, stand up tall, be attuned to that light, and that will radiate off of you. And so when somebody or something happens and it comes at you, it will bounce off because it does not match the vibration. When I'm feeling small or when I'm afraid of being big, I'm in fear. That's all. All that needs to be known, fear. Now that has a magnetism that I'm vibrating at because I'm afraid. And so anything that's vibrating at fear can now go, oh, look, oh, there, I see a way in. See, she's afraid of being like seen or she's afraid of, you know, being heard. Here we go. And now it's plugged in.
I tell this story sometimes, you know, I always wear, and I'm wearing green today, but I usually wear black all the time. And I was invited to this event and I found this like beautiful canary yellow dress. And I thought, and I love that color, but I rarely wear color. And I decided I was gonna wear it. And you know, even my husband's like, wow, that's, that's like new for you. And I'm like, yeah, I know. But he meant it in a nice way. So I put the dress on, I go to the party, but I'm a little intimidated by this choice, right? This bold choice. Minute I walk in, the person I see first goes, wow, wow. Well that's bright color. And I felt myself go, ugh, right? A little bit of doubt came in. I already had a little doubt and now here comes the doubt and, and then you know, I'm thinking, wow, why? Okay, just keep going. You wore it, you got it. You can do this. Talk myself out of it, just was a little sting. And then, you know, moving on to the party, somebody goes, oh gosh, that's bright. Okay, here it comes. Now here's the cord going even deeper, because I was magnifying doubt. I was magnifying fear, and so what I'm putting up a sign when I walk in instead of, oh, I'm feeling good and I'm in flow, and I'm feeling colorful and light and bright. I was walking in going, oh, I hope this isn't too bright. Well, by the time I ended the party, I might as well have wore worn a black dress because all the color. Was drained out of me because of my doubt was this little sign, and then all of the energy just came to me. We create our own experience and so darkness, shadow energy is, is opportunistic too. It waits.
ELISE: Yeah, I've been writing a long series on my series about darkness and shadow energies and grappling with my understanding of it. Not that I have a full explication. I also tell the story of when I started working with you, and you pulled an entity out of my neck and then I broke my neck and was fine. I was fine, but that was wild. You got it out. That's the thing. And it, I feel like it made one last attempt and failed.
JAKKI: That's what it does. It's relentless.
ELISE: Relentless. But I feel like we live in a, you know, we live in a culture, particularly sort of in the wellness side of things, where people are understandably obsessed with the light and talking about the light and have, again, deep fear of shadow or an unwillingness to look at it and not all, and shadow needs to be mixed. It needs to be transmuted. It can't just be avoided, you know, that we're full of shadow. We're full of it. And it's the only way that the light has any context really. That polarity is essential, but I think people need to sort of get out of this Pollyanna-ish view of, I just won't look over there. I'm ignoring that. Which is very different I think, than this idea of fear, because I will say when I met you, I was a little scared. And then part of it has been I'm not scared at all. I really am not afraid. I do a little exercise where I, every morning before I really open my eyes, I ask for protection. I ask to be shown what I need to see and really only what I need to see. I have a little process of just running, running energy quickly. It's not long. I spend two minutes, but just being really conscious. Again, that vibration, what you were talking about, what are you, what sticks, what are you gonna let drive you? And then as soon as it hits, like as soon as I find myself in fear, working really quickly to get myself out of it without being delusional or with being cognizant of the world that we live in. And that's part of it. This is part of it. This is part of our, this is one of our jobs.
JAKKI: It is our purpose for being embodied is to find out where we're in an agreement with a shadow and reframe it. So wherever I'm in a fear, it's about reframing it into what it is that and who it is that I want to be. And you know, I believe what you're, you know, you're talking about is spiritual bypass. We can't just positively talk or positively pray over a shadow because one thing our souls come here to do is find out where we're holding on to fears and release them. You know, our soul is truth, loves the truth. And wherever we're holding a fear, if we're denying it, we're still holding it in our vibrational space. It's not like we're gonna be able to escape it. We again, can't say it enough, we are electromagnetic beings. And if there is a fear and we're just saying, no, no, no, I can't look at it, it's still there and it's still going to materialize in your life, and it's gonna materialize in a pattern. And so we want to look at it and say, whoa, where am I in fear? And any frequency of fear. And fear by its very nature is a lie. The shadow is a lie, and it will continue to tell you lies in order so you can continue to believe it and let it stick around. And when you hear someone say, you know, love your shadow. That's true. It doesn't mean give it a hug and indulge it and say, would you like to stay for milk cookies?
It’s like you don't nurture the shadow. I call it indulgent. Do not indulge those fees. What you wanna say is, wow, you know what? I'm really, you know, for me, I had a fear of being seen, right? Because I believed early on I have a trauma around, you know, being ridiculed for being seen that I've carried that with me for a long time, and so everywhere I went I would always feel uncomfortable if I stood out too much. hence the yellow dress was like a big leap for me because I've always wanted to fly under the radar. I can't tell tell you how many times I used to say. You know what? I fly under the radar. I just, I don't need to be talked about it. I don't need to be seen. It was a fear of persecution. As long as I hold that and keep justifying it with, oh yeah, I fly under the radar, it's not going anywhere.
Everywhere I go, I'm always gonna feel disconnected until I stopped and said, wait, why do I wanna fly under the radar? It is not just, I'm not comfortable under the radar. I'm very uncomfortable. Every time I go somewhere, I feel disconnected from everybody. What is that? I have to take a look at it. Do I need to go jump into it and sit in it forever? No. It's called getting in and getting out. I need to go and see what's going on here. Oh, I get it. Because I have a belief that if I'm different, I'm less than, so I'm afraid. I’m in a fear. How do I shift that? What's the truth? What's the truth about that? The truth is I'm different. The truth is I'm not less than, I'm just different, and everybody is. And so now I have a practice. And I'm, I'm condensing it and making it simpler for time sake but that's the process of energy medicine. It, that's the process of looking at things through a lens in which you can say, I can trust that I'm safe in my vulnerability. I can take a look at that shadow. And the shadow doesn't get to run my show. It doesn't write my narrative, and it certainly isn't gonna set the scene for my life or my relationships. But if I keep believing that I'm lessened because I'm different, then every experience is going to be written from that belief system. And then I'll see a pattern in which I will feel left out less than or incapable. And so I have to wake up to it, face it, not fear it. When we fear fear, we become the fear. And when we, when we stop and reframe, now I can say, all right, it's a practice. I don't think that I'm instantly gonna go places and feel comfortable, but I think I'm gonna practice. So when I hear that little beast tapping at my door, instead of going, no, no, I can't talk to you. Oh no, no, I can't face it. I'm gonna go, oh you again, I don't think so. I trust. that I'm safe and I'm gonna attune, and then I'll use a mantra like, you know, it's safe to be seen. I am safe to be seen because I am capable. And then I will invite in divine energy, only divine energy may be around me. Please come with me, walk with me. Come to the cocktail party with me in my yellow dress. I mean, seriously. That's how I relate. Because when you're doing your practice every day and you're running that energy for two minutes, it doesn't matter if it's two minutes, 20 minutes, two hours, 20 seconds, you are building your relationship with the divine universe, with the forces of life.
And for that two minutes, when you're co-creating with that energy, it is building a field around you. It is fortifying your atoms, the way you organize your energy field in light for that two minutes, and it will sustain itself. The more you do it, the longer you'll be able to sustain that force field or in the light, that’s how you become. It's not from, I mean, I told you the story of going, you know, to clear the house with all the salt and the this and the that. The earth provides amazing vibrational tools for us all the time to create energy around us. But the more we create the energy within us, the more we can tap into the energy of the earth, salts and oils and things, and crystals and stones, and everything I do is alchemical for me and my wellbeing. However, it really matters on what we're doing in here because the light is in us.
ELISE: Yeah. And my understanding too, from talking to lots of people is that when you ask the divine, like the divine, they're not gonna bypass your free will, so when you ask for assistance or you ask for support, it's different. It's an invitation that they can respond to, whereas they're not gonna necessarily intercede without your expressed permission.
JAKKI: That’s a great story, Elise, that darkness likes us to believe. Turn it over and you know, God knows better. Well, no, that's not possible for a loving being. A loving being isn't domineering and a loving being is not going to judge you and certainly isn't going to test you. A loving being, a loving energy, and you can call that energy God, or again, it doesn't matter to me what people call it, when you call in forces of love, it is forces of love. What does love want? Love wants for you, what you want for yourself. Love wants to support you in ways that are in grace and patience. And so when you call it, it's coming in and saying, how can I help you? What do you need? How can I support you in the light? It's not gonna say, oh, you know what? I know you really wanted this, but too bad. But oftentimes, you know, we think that we get tested by the divine universe. No, we don't. We get tested by the shadow. Are you gonna come and agree with me again, that you're less than? Are you gonna come and agree with me again that you should be afraid? And that that's when the answer has to say no. I'm actually gonna agree with the fact that I can trust in my own capability cause I'm a divine being of the light. And when I tune into those energies, there's a whole force field of energy that is coming and welcoming me, and also joining me in my intention.
ELISE: So let's talk a bit about these shadow chords, entities, whatever, however people wanna imagine them in their mind, and they can be from past lives, like they can be old. I think I was contending with something that maybe definitely predated this lifetime where I had made. Maybe an unconscious agreement in a previous life. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, I think we were talking with Laura, the producer before we started going and we were talking about sort of relationships, ild loves these things where we feel connected or we still feel hooked. Right? How do you, does it matter what it is, first of all? And how do you know that something has you, and then how do you, how can we do our own emotional energetic hygiene? How can we get those hooks out?
JAKKI: So a couple of things. I always, again, energy is always reciprocal, right? So it's flowing and it's flowing between us all the time, and in ways that we're sometimes conscious of, most of the time we're unconscious of it, right? And I always say, you know, when you think about somebody and then they call you, right? Or you know, you call someone and they go, oh my God, goodness, I was just thinking about you. Right? That is energy being transferred. It's, you are getting the message right? And, and so if you're thinking, I always say to someone, if you're, if you're busy, like right now we’re engaged in a conversation and I'm totally focused right here, right now with you. If I started to think about somebody like not related to this conversation at all, that would tell me that that person's knocking at my door, right? That person's energy is, they're sending energy my way in some shape or form. If, when I think of 'em it feels pleasant and you know I'm in ease with it, then that's love or some faction of love coming my way. Right? If it pops up and I feel a sense of disharmony or dis-ease around it, well that's telling you it's some energy coming that is not in love. It is usually in some form of fear, intentional or unintentionally. That's why gossip is so. harmful because when we begin to think or speak in a way about somebody that's in a shadow, you know, that energy goes out there. And what ends up happening is, at first when somebody’s transmitting energy that's negative in a fear at you, it may come like a little post-it note and stick to your field. Right? So now I've got a little post-it note here that's saying, you know, whatever it wants to say about me that I'm, that I'm strange. Okay a lot of people think, you know, that I'm, I'm out there, whatever. So we'll use that as an example cause I don't wanna create a new post-it note for me. So here then you know that I'm kind of out there in my thinking or whatever and, and they keep saying it about me in a way that's, that's judgmental.
So it keeps sticking to me. If there's a part of me that believes it, let's go back to my limiting belief that because I'm different, I'm less than that post-it note, is gonna turn into one a big billboard, right? Because now I believe it, so there's a charge to it. Now I'm amplifying that energy in my space, but if I really believe it and that person keeps pushing it there, or I encounter that person and I judge them for being whatever, now it becomes a chord. And because it's in the frequency of less than or judgment, that cord, well usually attached to my fifth chakra cause your fifth chakra is all about judgment, right? Our fifth chakra is that chakra that is about our expression and, and trusting that we are divine and that we are worthy. But when I feel unworthy, that allows an energy to come in and grabbed me. So now I've got, I keep thinking of this person. I feel uncomfortable and now my neck hurts. My neck hurts, so I'm going, gee, why does my neck hurt? Right? Whenever we have a pain sensation in our thoughts, right in our physical body or in our mind where we keep spinning, spinning, spinning, stop, take a minute and tune in to that pain. Like don't be afraid, like step into it. But when you're doing that, do it while you're running an energy of gold. So just ask and I'm gonna make it simple. I mean, there's a process that's longer, but let's just keep it simple for this. All you need is gold. Call in big golden light to come in. Just ask for gold. Just like you would ask for a cup of tea, ask for gold, and trust that it will come in.
And so you ask for this gold and here comes the gold. And now you go into that. Now you're being protected. You're being held with the golden energy. That's super important, so you don't get stuck in the muck. Alright, so what's this pain in my neck? So I'm not asking the pain cause the pain's a big fat liar. The pain's gonna tell me I'm a loser and I'm weird. And you know, nobody believes in any of the crazy stuff that you talk about or it's gonna tell me all those things that that person is saying about me. Okay. So now I'm in that and I'm going, okay, divine energy, gold. What's this pain about? Oh, it's about that you are judging yourself as being less than. It's about that. Okay, where's it coming from? Oh, it's coming from that person, I think of that person in that moment. Now I know I got a cord between me and them, right? Where am I now? The real question is cause a cord cannot stick to you unless you agree with it. BecauseI agree with what that person is saying. There's a part of me that agrees with it. That's why I am now corded. I gotta get that out. So I'm gonna run that gold, gold, gold, and I even will tune in for a minute and I'll use my hand and I'll put my hand through wherever the pain is.
I'll just do this and just listen. Listen for a second. You'll be able to tune in and hear what that is and then see yourself run that gold more and more and more. And then ask any anchor points between me and let's say it's, you know, whomever it is, person's name. I'm asking that that cord be broken and be broken now I am only in agreement with divine. Only divine light may be present with me, and that will help get the cord out or at least dissipate it. That's one way. The other way is just forget about it. I don't need to know where it comes from. I know I don't agree with it. I'm gonna, I don't want this. This can't be in my space. So you tune into that pain again, and all you need to do is ask Warren Focus on little tiny white roses. White Roses are an energetic tool of forgiveness when we call them in and we use them and put them where the pain. and then see them explode, like little firecrackers, just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, breaking up. It'll break up the, the anchor point of the cord. It'll break up the energy and keep doing it until you feel a sense of relief. Like, you know, I don't use Advil a lot anymore, any type of pain medicine. I use roses and I will sit, I do, and I will sit and run roses and, and just explode them. Explode them. And it may take five minutes, it may take five hours, but it doesn't matter. You want that energy out. And then when you, once you do that, just see the gold light come back in because wherever you remove a cord, you have to replace it with energy cause now there's, there's a void, right? And you wanna call your energy back and then just see it come in as gold.
ELISE: I have a couple of questions. So is this why, I always found this during breakups that, I mean, it's such a, every woman, every man probably knows this too, the minute that you actually finally release, I always felt to me like a door closing. The moment that you actually really let someone go or release them, or, I didn't know that I was cord cutting, but I must have been cord cutting, they come back, right? This is this, we just know this. At a point when you're like, I don't know why I even liked you. I am confused about the compelling nature of relationship right now, should people be sort of aware of that? Is that true?
JAKKI: It’s amazing whenever I do a major cord cutting with people, and I do it in a way where we push all of the energy out, it's pretty, it's pretty big deal. Well, we've done it before, so that person always either texts the person or calls or we'll even be on in the session and they'll go, oh my gosh, they just called me. And I'll be like, of course. Because they can feel your energy leaving because when you are corded in a cord of energy that is in a fear frequency, it's a feeding, the energy is being drained and it, and you could be doing the draining as well, right? And that's why it's always important. You always wanna call your energy back to you. You don't want, you don't wanna be in that type of relational experience where you're corded and you're draining someone. So always call your energy back. But, but when you have a breakup, especially because there's so many confusing or complex energy agreements between you and that person, and it's always Karmic, right?
In every relationship there is something for us to. So when you find that you one can't let go of someone, or you can't let go of beating yourself up for being in a relationship with somebody, you wanna say, well, what, you know, where's the wisdom in that? What did I learn from that experience? Get that first and then say, okay, now I know that I was supposed to learn to have better boundaries or I was supposed to learn that my voice matters. Now that person has less of a chance of holding on. They're let, they've let go. They keep coming back. Well, they keep coming back because they're trying to seek can we get back in? Because remember, your dinner, that energy has been sustaining them in some way, shape or form, consciously or unconsciously. Hopefully, for most people it's, it's unconsciously because if their intention is to drain you, that's a pretty dark agreement and that's a whole different set of energy cords. When someone's intentionally setting out to steal from you, your light.or to harm you. That's where you have to stop and say, you know, , that's where you wanna call in divine forces or get someone to support you. And you can tell the difference because it feels really, really sticky. And no matter what you do, you feel like you can't get around it. There's a doorway that that's getting in that you're not aware of, and, and that's where you wanna do a lot of that energy running. The more you run your energy, the less it can hold on. Does that make sense?
ELISE: Yeah, I need to tell, so I had known of Jackie, but we had lunch one day and, um, via friend a, a good mutual friend Casey, who Jackie does workshops with, and which I'll tell you all about in the intro, but on my way to lunch, I saw a raccoon in the middle of the day and I noted it because they're nocturnal animals. And I was like, that's weird. I saw a raccoon. So we all, we have a really fun lunch and I'd heard amazing things about Jackie and I was like I wanna see what, what you're about. So we did a phone call and started working on this. I'd had this chronic neck pain for years and immediately, and I grind my teeth, et cetera. And Jackie was like on it exactly in the part of my neck that it was. And so we did a big session. I could feel I'm very sensitive so I could feel it through the phone. And that night I was, the doors were open, it was warm, and a bird had flown in to my house and I opened a slider on the side to get the bird out and I left it open and went to bed.
And this is not uncommon for us to leave doors open. Not not, it's not a practice, but it happens. And when I woke up the next morning, a raccoon had come into our house, eaten the cat's food, got broken into the kids', like snack bag got, he got into one of the kids' backpacks and then he took a huge crap on our couch.
JAKKI: That's right.
ELISE: Do you remember that? And I was like, JackKI, what the hell? And she was like, well, it means we shut the front door in the back door, but some side doors are still open. And it was amazing.
JAKKI: Yeah, it likes to backdoor us, but I love it when, you know, it's interesting if we think about energy and you'd be like, well, what people are probably going, well, how could the raccoon, like, how could the well energy channels just like it channels through us, that energy use that raccoon and channeled through it? And that's, that's real. Think, think about how many times you've said something and you're like, why did I say that? Or, where did that come from? Right?
ELISE: Totally.
JAKKI: It's something channeling. And so that's why we wanna have seniority. That raccoon didn't have a lot of seniority over their energy field. That raccoon wasn't in sovereignty, but, but you know, you want to. You wanna have seniority. That's why you don't want cords. You don't want cords. You don't want holes in your energy field. You don't want doors open. We all have 'em. If we didn't, we wouldn't be Here. We are here to close the doors. It doesn't mean something's wrong with you or that you have a terrible life, or what's wrong, or why, why, why, why, why. Whenever you hear yourself ask that question, stop because what you're doing is you're inviting the shadow in to tell you a big fat lie. When you ask why you're asking to hear a lie, that's what I always say stop. Don't ask it. You don't ask why. You ask what and that's why you get answers. What is this? Well, you know what? When we say What is this, what am I to know? What do I need to know here so I can get past this so I can grow, so I can evolve and I can move into this next phase and get my energy back and be more creative and have more balance and be free, now the divine universe gets to ask, answer you, and you know what? That little raccoon got in, but it got in because you got the message, right? So this is an important point, light will always trump shadow, always. The only time that the shadow can get in is when we match it. And so, but if we're steeped in in prayer, it will only get so far because we're only here to learn. We're only here to grow. We're not here to be destroyed by it, if that makes.
ELISE: Nor to have raccoons. I just wanna issue a disclaimer, like you're not gonna get attacked by a raccoon, it was just a funny event and I think it was connected, but don't worry, no one, if people have raccoon phobias, like a raccoon is not gonna break into your house and poop on your couch, nor are you gonna necessarily experience anything. You're not gonna break your neck, like the things that I experience are quite wild and extreme, but mostly you're gonna get a text, you're gonna run into someone at the grocery store. You're gonna, you're gonna get some gentle nudges. You're not gonna get a catastrophe. Not that a raccoon is a catastrophe.
JAKKI: No, nothing is a catastrophe if we don't buy into it. It’s humorous. Like, did anything terrible happen? No. Did you get a big like, oh, okay, I'm on the right track, really is what that tells you.
ELISE: Yeah, and I didn't even know I had broken my neck for a week for context. I, again, I don't want anyone to worry or think that, that that's what's coming for them, but you're safe. Ultimately, it's, if anything, it is kind, it's good to have some humor around it because this stuff sounds scary and it shouldn't scare you.
[00:45:30] JAKKI: No, never. Because here's the thing, we go into growth periods, right? And what that means is when we start to ask questions about why is something in my life in disarray, or why do I keep having the same experience in which, you know, I'm at a loss or I have loss, or I keep getting rejected or, you know, I can't find a job, or I'm stuck in a bad relationship that you know is abusive. When we start to say what is? Things are gonna open up. They have to open up, they have to pop open. And when they pop open, all the pain pops out. It comes out, it has to, it has to come out, it has to go somewhere. And that's really what you're talking about. All of that disruption led you to a place of your neck feels better now. Right? You're in more of a flow. But before that happens, we have to get, get the energy out of our space, out of our system, out of our field. So it can't materialize any longer but for a moment or two, it may be, or feel a little chaotic and, and dark energy banks on that.
Dark energy banks on that. It's gonna get a little chaotic and then you're gonna retreat. You're not gonna push through it it, and so in those cases you have to say, wait, no. I know that if I focus on the light, I can go through this and I will go through it. And when I come out on the other side, I'm going to be free.
ELISE: Yes. It's like getting a really intense facial.
JAKKI: Yeah.
[00:47:25] ELISE: My editor hates it when I use this metaphor, but in a way it's like trying to really clear skin, right? You're lancing things, you're disrupting. It's maybe looks a little worse and then it heals, or you're covering it up, but you're living with it. Right?
JAKKI: Right. And if you just keep putting cover up on your, your acne, what's gonna happen? You just get more acne cause you're just clogging everything up. You're not allowing anything to come up and out.
ELISE: And is that an explanation? So like, let's say that you are in a relationship, you break up, there's a certain chord, right, that's hitting you in your feeling of self-worth or you know, right in the neck, let's say, does that then become evident and is this part of our pattern? Repetition? Is this when you start finding yourself in the same type of relationship, in part because the hook is going into that same vulnerable, exposed place.
JAKKI: Well, yes, but it's also because you haven't got the message yet. And there's still layers there and that doesn't mean so many times people will say, well, I thought I was so far on this, you know, feeling unworthy, and now I'm just right back to where I was again, I'm failing. So then we go into this, like this idea that we're failing. No, you're evolving and you may have a lot of karma with a certain type of energy, field of energy and with different souls. And so you've gotta go through those relationships and say, no. That breaks karma. Karma is about seeing yourself in the same thing over and over again, and making a new choice and making a choice in love. And so if you find that you're in the same type of romantic relationship with the same type of partner, it's because you're trying to solve. You're trying to say no to an energy that you've been saying yes to in different ways, shapes, and forms. And again, it has a lot of doorways. So with one partner, you may have shut one doorway, and now you've got the same but different partner and you got another doorway shut and then you're here. And hopefully each time you become more free. That's what we're looking for. And what happens though is instead of going, oh, well I really learned that this time and then I really learned it with this guy and now I've really learned it with this person, and okay, I'm doing pretty well. Every time I'm getting a little bit more free, I'm using my voice. I'm setting better boundaries, or whatever it is, I'm beginning to see that I matter and that I'm not gonna be afraid of being rejected because it means that I'm a loser or less than. I'm gonna say that I matter and that actually I can feel fulfilled within myself. Oh, now I got it right. It took me five relationships, but great. I say celebrate that those are five souls, that somewhere in your eternal lifetime you've created an agreement with a karma and they've had, those are those chords that come across embodiments, right? They're universal threads of energy. With that, you're attached to this person and now you're done. It's like, that's great. Now where's the next person? Oh, here comes this next relationship and oh wow, it’s really amazing because he got there because you got the message. But if you don't wanna get the message and you wanna keep saying, oh, that guy's this and that person's that, and I'm a victim, and you're in victim consciousness, you're going to, you might as well say, line up everybody that I have. You know, karma agreements in this particular area of I'm not worthy and they'll line up and they'll keep coming. And I don't think that's what we want. I think we want to grow and evolve. Right?
ELISE: Amazing. Can someone have hooks in you even if they've passed?
JAKKI: Yes. So we are eternal being. If someone is either embodied or has crossed over, they don't cease to exist, our relationship is still our relationship. And so love transcends all space and time, right? And so we're infinitely connected to people that we love and that we're connected to, you know, there are the hooks and love, those are beautiful. I, you know, I don't know that we necessarily want that to be unhooked, but the shadow frequencies and the chords that are diminishing exist as well. But again, think of everything as a frequency of energy. Shadow cannot go everywhere. It can only be in spaces and places in which shadow is present. So if we are holding anger or holding resentment or regret or judgment about someone, it doesn't cease just because they're not embodied any longer. And so it's really important to know we can work on that when someone leaves the planet. I think a lot of suffering happens when people aren't in forgiveness, frequency, and then someone leaves and then we feel like, oh gosh, you know, I never solved that. We can solve it at any time. The universe is not restrained by time and space.
ELISE: Beautiful, beautiful.
I love Jakki, she’s hilarious, but she’s also dropped some intense wisdom on me in the past years. And she, in turn, has re-contextualized and reframed for me the way I see energy, both mine and other peoples. And we went on quite a journey and I wrote about it more on my Substack, which is EliseLoehnen.substack.com I did a whole series about darkness and shadow—give it a listen if you liked what you heard here. Its informed by a lot of interesting thinkers like Llewelyn Vaughn-Lee and Richard Rohr and it’s me trying to grabble with what’s afoot, not that I have any answers, but hopefully it provides clarity and also reassurance somehow because yes, there is darkness and shadow, but don’t be afraid. There is no reason to be afraid, you really are safe. Alright, see you next week.
